Hideo Kojima – His Life & Career

Ask fans of videogaming to think of a well-known Japanese developer, and two names will inevitably come up: Shigeru Miyamoto and Hideo Kojima. Inspired in part by the former’s Famicom platformer Super Mario Bros., Kojima has become one of the driving forces in cinematic storytelling thanks to his epic opus of a soldier named Solid Snake. And yet, while he may be the father of ‘tactical espionage action’, Hideo Kojima’s body is powered by more than just metal gears.

Mollie: For many fans of video gaming, Metal Gear was one of our earliest memories of a game that really captivated us, and which made us feel like video games had the potential to be more than what we thought video games would be. What is your earliest memory of gaming that go your excited, or made you think that maybe one day you’d want to do this kind of stuff?

Hideo Kojima: It was a time when video games didn’t quite exist yet. I played board games and electronic games like Battleship when I was young. I also played mechanical coin-op games on top-floor department store arcades constantly; ¥10 or ¥20 physical shooting games. I remember Killer Shark, a light gun shark-shooting game, with particular fondness. (Note: One of Sega’s last mechanical arcade games, released in 1972.) I was a huge fan of shooting games, and would always visit the shooting galleries at amusement parks. There was one game in which you’d shoot between girls’ skirts and make them billow up. [laughs] To make a home game machine comparison, they were something like Nintendo’s Kousenjuu SP. (Translator’s note: A series of home light gun games first released in 1970.)

The first real video game I played was of course Space Invaders, which hit when I was in late elementary school. Still, I wasn’t able to go to many specialized arcades until I was in university, when I finally had some free time. [laughs] That was the era of games like Xevious.

Video games at home meant a Famicom, and Super Mario Bros. was definitely a big one. I knew I wanted to make video games when I encountered Mario.

Mollie: So, before you got to that point of playing video games as we know them now—back when “games” were still board games—did you ever think “I want to make this kind of thing”?

Kojima: At the time I was more interested in creating stories. I’d write stacks of short stories and novellas. I also thought I wanted to direct movies, and I drew comics too. But I do remember using shogi boards and decks of playing cards to create original games. My local friends would gather—not just kids my age, but younger kids, older kids, and girls too. If we didn’t have enough people to play baseball, I’d make up original rulesets for existing games and change them constantly. This may be particular of my generation, but what I was doing every day did resemble game design. [laughs]

Mollie: Where did that inspiration to make up stories come from as a child? Was there anything in particular that sparked that imagination in your head?

Kojima: It was just something that came naturally, from as early as I could think. I liked drawing and sculpting as well, and my parents showed me a lot of movies… but every time I walked to school I’d come up with at least three stories before I even got to class.

Mollie: I know that movies are a big part of your life, and were even when you were a child. Do you remember the very first movie you ever saw?

Kojima: Hmm… There was a weekly TV program called Youga Gekijou (Note: Literally “Western Movie Theatre“), which was of course before home video. I don’t remember exactly what the first film was, but I watched the show with my parents every week. I’m fairly sure I was already watching it when I was a toddler.

I remember going to the movie theater when I was a little older, seeing things like Godzilla, anime, and period samurai films. I didn’t have much choice in the matter; my parents just dragged me along. [laughs] I do remember the first movie I saw in a theater: Daimajin (Note: Dir. Kimiyoshi Yasuda, 1966). I remember being very frightened. Yeah, it was a double feature with Gamera VS. Barugon (Note: Dir. Shigeo Tanaka, 1966). [laughs]

The first movie I saw in a theater alone was Rollerball with James Caan. I was still in grade school, switching between trains and buses to get there. After that experience I began to get more confident and started going alone all the time. [laughs] You were considered a bit of a delinquent if you went to see Western films at that age, so I wouldn’t usually ask friends to come with me.

Mollie: Do you feel that going to a movie theater is still an important experience in seeing movies? If you think of it in terms of the gaming side of things, arcades used to be our major source for playing games, but now—at least in the West—many have given up that experience for home consoles connected to large-screen HDTVs and fancy audio set-ups.

Kojima: Theaters are very special places to me. I love the sense of anticipation before a movie rolls, watching trailers, waiting with bated breath. Personally, if I’m going to take the time to watch a movie, I always prefer it on the big screen.

In this day and age you can even watch films on YouTube, although quality suffers. I do think streaming will get better, and the advantage of watching when and however you want is attractive. With that said, the bare minimum filmic requirement for me are movies worth sacrificing time and money for—not just tickets, but cost of transportation too. If the only type of films being released made audiences think “I don’t need to see this in a theater, I’ll just watch it on the net,” I would fear for the future of the medium.

Mollie: You originally wanted to create films, but instead got into creating games. Due to that, and the overall style of your games, some people do comment that they feel you’d rather be off directing movies versus doing what you do. At this point in your life, how would you answer comments like that?

Kojima: I’ve always wanted to make movies, yes. I would like to direct one before I die. Film industry people will often tell me shooting a film is easier than making a game, because the director has complete control over chronology, camera placement and so on. Directing a movie would be vastly simpler than creating a game, with its necessary player interactivity and innumerable variables.

It is true I started making games because I was unable to direct films, but I soon began to realize the depth interactivity affords. You can’t control the player’s experience of passage of time or the way he might approach a situation, but you can predict what type of set-piece or bit of fan service he might enjoy. So much can be offered an audience only through the medium of games. The process of making them is tremendously enjoyable for me. Until I make a game I feel completely satisfied with—knowing it turned out exactly as I wanted—I doubt I’ll be able to transition to film.

Mollie: If I go to the theater to see a Hideo Kojima movie, naturally I’d probably expect a film filled with military action, or maybe some sort of sci-fi drama. But then again, I wonder if I wouldn’t be totally surprised by, say, a romantic comedy or something along those lines. [laughs] What would a Hideo Kojima movie be?

Kojima: Metal Gear casts a long shadow, but I love all kinds of Hollywood genres. I have been asked to do an action movie, and it goes without saying I’d like to. With that said, human drama, family drama, smaller stories, even comedy… but probably not horror. Horror scares me. [laughs] I have affection for every movie genre, and I wrote stories in all of them when I was younger.

I would rather my first film be something other than military action. [laughs] People associate me strongly with the genre. I did create the feel of the Metal Gear world, but its setting came from the fact that we were dealing with a video game. In a film I’d rather open my drawers and pull out something completely different… even something as simple as a man and woman talking in a four-and-a-half tatami mat room.

Mollie: When you were there working on Metal Gear in 1987, did you have any expectation that the video game market would become what it is now, and that it would advance as much as it has? What did you think of the future of gaming, if you thought of its future at all?

Kojima: I knew game hardware evolution was inevitable. On the MSX in 1987 there was no voice, only 16 colors… almost unthinkably low-tech in retrospect. I knew voice would come in, and I would be able to get closer to a film-like quality. As a movie fan, I couldn’t have kept working unless I held on to that belief. [laughs] However, it it is true I never thought these technological advances would happen quite so quickly.

Mollie: Was there any specific game that helped reassure you about those kinds of features coming along at some point down the road? Or maybe, even before that, something which simply opened your eyes to the future of gaming in general?

Kojima: Yes, a game called Out of This World (Note: Another World in Europe) that came out after I joined the game industry. I could feel real authorship in it; it was absolutely incredible to me. Others included Half-Life and the shock of Grand Theft Auto.

GTAIII came out the same year as Metal Gear Solid 2, and it seemed the thought processes behind the two games were completely different. It was beyond game design; the area a player could explore was so vast that not even the game designer could predict all possible outcomes. That title definitely opened my eyes.

Mollie: So, from the initial days of Space Invaders to Metal Gear to Metal Gear Solid to Grand Theft Auto to now, games have changed so much. There’s such a variety of games.; they’re so different. If I asked you, “What is a video game?” how would you answer that question?

Kojima: Hmm. It’s the interactivity. The player makes an input and receives a response. It doesn’t matter if there’s only a single button, or if directional input is limited to two directions, or if the control scheme is highly complex. That would be my basic definition. This is what fundamentally separates games from other media like movies or novels.

Mollie: And then, if I asked you “Who Hideo Kojima is?” how would you answer that?

Kojima: I’m not sure how to answer that. [laughs]

Mollie: The reason I’m asking is because you have a lot of fans out there in the world, and they think they know the answer to that question, because you’re such a popular and well known person in videogaming. How does the real you differ from the imagined creator of Metal Gear that everybody thinks of?

Kojima: Well, I’ve only created games so far. Sure, I have collaborated on a few other projects, but primarily I’m a game person. I haven’t really shown the world what else I might be capable of yet. This may sound pretentious, but I don’t like being thought of as “the Metal Gear guy”. [laughs] There’s a lot more I can do.

Some might peg me as a military otaku. I do enjoy it, but I hope people realize there’s more to me. I’m capable of much more. [laughs]

Mollie: Do you ever worry that people pay more attention to you as a person versus the projects that you’re creating? For example, someone may go see a film because Christopher Nolan was the director, and won’t give any consideration to what the film even is. Sometimes, the creator can overshadow his or her own work.

Kojima: I don’t know if I worry. [laughs] Of course I’d rather the emphasis lie on what I make rather than who I am. I’ll be fine with people drawing conclusions about me after I die, but right now, as a creator, I’d like my communication and interactivity with the audience to be through the works.

You brought up Christopher Nolan and how “the new film by Nolan” might overshadow the work. I will admit that I hope my future endeavors are thought of as “works by Hideo Kojima” rather than “from the creator of Metal Gear“. [laughs]

Mollie: On the subject of directors, it’d be crazy to think of a film director who doesn’t enjoy—or even casually watch—movies. Yet, there are some game creators who don’t play games. Do you have to be a fan of games in order to make them, or if you just have a creative spirit, is that enough to make something that’s good?

Kojima: It goes without saying you have to play your own games extensively, but I don’t think it’s necessary to play the works of others. I do think it’s important to pay attention to trends and listen to what your fans have to say, but inspiration can be drawn from films, novels, music… So, no, I don’t think being a gamer is a requirement for making a great game.

Mollie: Is there a particular game or game feature that has caught your eye in recent years? One that really stood out to you, that you enjoyed, or just thought was a good idea?

Kojima: Red Dead Redemption was truly amazing, although I wasn’t able to beat it. I haven’t had the time to finish many games going on two or three years now. [laughs] Even so, it’s always a shock and inspiration whenever I’m presented with ideas that would never occur to me. The source material can be anything—games, movies, novels or music. I have very little interest in derivative games or those similar to mine. Getting excited about works doing something new—that’s what I enjoy. I do play games with my children, for example, but it’s a completely different experience from playing games with the mindset of a game creator.

Mollie: Do you worry about if your children will enjoy your games or not? [laughs]

Kojima: I don’t think I want my kids to play them, but I do want them to know I make games because I enjoy it. My oldest recently asked me “So Metal Gear seems to be on a downward spiral lately, huh?” [laughs]

Mollie: Do you consider yourself a game creator, or a “Japanese” game creator?

Kojima: I’m not very conscious of the “Japanese” part. I prefer simply “game designer”.

Mollie: Do you feel the recent conversation about Japanese game development and Japanese game creators has gotten blown out of proportion, or is it an important topic to bring up?

Kojima: It’s an important topic. It’s a problem. Specifically, I worry about advances in graphical power and the impact it has on visual presentation of culture, race, region and language. If Japanese developers continue to create games in the Japanese style, set in Japan, they’re just not going to sell worldwide. It’s the exact same problem that faces Japanese movies in foreign markets.

When Akira Kurosawa did The Seven Samurai, set in Japan, shot in Japanese with all Japanese actors, it felt profoundly new to Westerners. That fascination culminated in The Magnificent Seven with Yul Brynner. [laughs] A Japanese director could never have made a Magnificent Seven; it took a Westerner inspired by foreign sensibilities. I’d like to see something similar in games. Japanese need to adopt a more global style, perhaps visit Hollywood, take inspiration, and make Hollywood-style games. There aren’t many other options.

Miyazaki films have great critical acclaim overseas, but they’re gigantic in Japan. In the West, the average moviegoing public doesn’t see them. That means a low budget which has to be recouped in Japan alone, and hampers the development of new technologies. If you want to compete with the entire world, you need subject matter and a worldview that are globally recognizable.

There’s no reason you can’t have a studio here in Tokyo comprised of Japanese people—well, of course they don’t all have to be Japanese, but a Japanese studio—develop a game set in New York originating with an English script. It’s completely viable.

Mollie: One of the factors that sometimes gets lost in bringing Japanese games to the West is the translation. Not everyone seems to understand the importance of a good translation, but that’s one of the points you’ve seemed concerned with over your career. How important is the quality of the translation?

Kojima: Our games have an awful lot of text and dialogue, so we are very conscious of spending the time and effort on localization. With that said, GTAIII gave me a bit of a shock: I realized how difficult it is to get authentic colloquial English and slang right in a translation from a script originating in Japanese. However good a translation may be, it still isn’t going to be living English. I realized I could never make a game set in that type of world. I suppose if GTA can be developed in the UK while still being that accurate, I could go to Hollywood and dictate my plots to a professional screenwriter. [laughs]

Mollie: Do you think the success of Metal Gear is a blessing or a curse for you as a creator?

Kojima: As far as blessings, Metal Gear is globally known now. I can collaborate with creators from around the world. I have access to famous actors. Things of this nature have become much simpler… and I also get big budgets. [laughs] Curses? With Metal Gear being the juggernaut it is, creating original IP isn’t easy. I work in an environment where getting new IP out the door can be difficult.

Mollie: George Lucas just sold Lucasfilm to Disney, so that he can walk away—

Kojima: I was surprised by that. It’s a huge amount of money! [laughs]

Mollie: Well, so with that huge amount of money, now he can walk away and do small films that have nothing to do with Star Wars. Do you wish that you could just walk out the door today and go make small games that have nothing to do with Metal Gear?

Kojima: I suppose I could make them if I left Konami. [laughs] But in seriousness, I’m often misinterpreted. I have always said I want to work on original IP, but Metal Gear offers plenty of benefits. Fox Engine, for example, took a lot of time and money. We were only able to develop it because it was intended for the next Metal Gear. In the next game [Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes] I’m introducing concepts intended for entirely new IP using the Metal Gear brand. Something I always tell younger creators is not to be afraid of giant franchises. Cameron shooting Aliens or Nolan tackling Batman… You’re going to get a serious budget for Batman, and you can take that opportunity to make your Batman film. Of course, it has to succeed if you’re going to succeed.

Mollie: For the original Metal Gear, from what I understand, the design of it was based around the MSX’s inability to have scrolling screens for gameplay. Do you find game development more or less challenging when you have no technical limitations like that? If you can do anything you want, is it harder to craft a game versus if you have these set rules for what the hardware can and can’t do?

Kojima: Hmm… You have to make choices. We can do almost anything now, but budgets and development times have to be accounted for. Of course, the ideal would be complete creative freedom. If what you want to achieve proves impossible and you come up with a replacement idea, you haven’t realized your original vision. That’s a very different thing from purposefully avoiding implementing an idea that is technically possible.

Mollie: How about creating games at the beginning of a hardware’s life versus near the end? At the beginning, it’s exciting because you have this new hardware that you don’t yet know what it can fully do, but at the end, you have more ideas of its power, so you can create bigger projects.

Kojima: Before a console’s release you don’t know what the limits are. You don’t know how far you can push the graphics, you don’t have a baseline of quality someone else has established. You have to define that baseline. How far should we try to go with the visuals? How ambitious in scope should we be? You don’t know what other titles in development are doing. There are no prior examples. That can be difficult, but it can also be a lot of fun. [laughs]

Mollie: Do you feel that the current console generation has gone for too long, or do you think it’s good that the industry has gotten more life out of that hardware?

Kojima: How should I put this… It’s not a platform war to me, it’s the span of time between leaps in technology. In that sense, I think quicker is better. It’s not about, say, PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360 specifically, but rather the general tech level of a generation. You make your first game with a lot of difficulty, beginning before the hardware is finalized. When you move on to the next, you’re able to achieve things you couldn’t in the first title; tech advances on the software level rather than the hardware level. That usually prepares you for the next generation of hardware. For me, two or three projects per console generation is the maximum. After that it’s time to move on.

Mollie: Obviously you can’t tell us any secrets about the next consoles, but are there any features or design aspect you hope they’ll include? Is there anything you personally would love to see to make the kind of games you want to make on the next systems?

Kojima: I’m not so concerned about hardware specs right now. Radical leaps in technology are difficult to deal with. I’m more concerned with aspects like cloud computing, cloud storage, and playing the same game across multiple devices—I think we’re going to see advances in these areas very quickly, and I’d like the standards to be established sooner rather than later.

Mollie: Do you have any concern or thoughts at all on the fact that Japan is moving more towards handheld systems and America is moving more towards consoles?

Kojima: Hmm. No. I’m sure consoles and handhelds will be connecting with each other more and more. Although you may not be able to concentrate on a handheld and become immersed in a world the way you might on a console, you can certainly make do with a portable device when you’re on the go. Even if a particular user only owns one or the other, taking the strengths and weaknesses of console and handheld into account should allow for game design that can coexist. I think we’re moving into a very different, connected world.

Mollie: I think one of the most interesting things that was ever done with the Metal Gear series was for Metal Gear Solid 2. Before it came out, players were only shown the Solid Snake portion of the game, and the whole aspect of Raiden was completely secret. I thought that was an amazing idea, but looking back, do you regret that decision?

Kojima: I don’t regret it. [laughs]

Mollie: How do you feel about the reaction? And, would you ever try that again?

Kojima: Well, I always want to surprise people, but I don’t want surprises that get booed. [laughs] I’d definitely like to deliver another surprise that big, but one that makes everyone happy. I don’t think it’ll take the same form as Raiden, but yes, I want to do something in that vein again.

Actually, the appearance of Raiden only made Solid Snake more popular. You couldn’t play as him; you got to see him objectively as this legendary figure. It made him larger than life. In that sense I consider Raiden a success. Fans wanted to play as Snake more than ever, hence MGS3. By the same token, MGS4 introduced an old, tired Snake with a creaky back to contrast with an unplayable, acrobatic Raiden in cool action cutscenes. [laughs] Now the fans wanted to play as Raiden, hence Rising.

Mollie: Did you end up feeling pressure to make Raiden “cooler”, so that Metal Gear fans would accept him more? Or was his progress from what he was in MGS2 to what he is now a natural progression that would have happened to him as a character anyhow?

Kojima: Originally, Raiden was meant to be a more relatable character for players. He wasn’t a legendary hero, he needed training. He would be more accessible for people just coming into the series. I had hoped that aspect would be appreciated, but in a direct comparison to Snake he came off as somewhat weak. Raiden is our baby, and we want people to like him, so we did consciously cool him up a bit.

Mollie: You mentioned earlier the question of how people will remember you once you’re done making games. How do you hope people will remember you?

Kojima: Hmmm… It’s probably better if I don’t answer that one. [laughs]

Mollie: You’re so big into movies, but are you big into television shows at all? Are there any Western or Japanese TV shows that you are a big fan of?

Kojima: I love The Galloping Gourmet with Graham Kerr (laughs). But in seriousness, when it comes to TV, everything… movies, dramas, variety shows, sitcoms, I watched it all. There’s very little I don’t like. MGS4 had a number of “TV shows” at the beginning—a cooking show, a quiz show and so on. They’re all parodies of old American and European TV shows I enjoyed. I’m an especially big fan of trivia game shows. Recent Japanese TV is pretty bad, though. [laughs] It’s all just personalities talking on variety shows.

Mollie: What kind of robotic implants would you want?

Kojima: All I’d really need would be my brain, I think.

Mollie: And having the rest of your body be that of a cyborg would be okay?

Kojima: Oh, not all at once. [laughs] Maybe a gradual transition, like in Galaxy Express 999. If I had complete choice, I’d rather continue to live in my body as it is now for another hundred, two hundred years. Then again, if doing that came down to being a vampire or a cyborg, I’d go cyborg. [laughs]

Mollie: On Twitter, you once said that your body was 70% percent movies. What is the other 30%?

Kojima: The human body is composed of 70 to 80% water, right? And you’d die without it. That’s what I meant there… but it’s entirely possible the remaining 30% is movies too. [laughs] Humans can’t survive a week without water, and I doubt I could survive a week without at least one movie. Well, I might live, but I wouldn’t be very happy about it. [laughs]

Mollie: So let’s say that you’re Solid Snake, you’ve been captured by the enemy, and you’re about to be executed. If they offer you your final meal, what would it be?

Kojima: I get asked this question frequently. I don’t think I’d have much of an appetite near the end. [laughs] If I had to say, probably a spaghetti dish.

Mollie: Not a Japanese dish?

Kojima: I’m not a huge fan of Japanese food, although I do like sushi and oden. I like being presented with a lot of choices; I hate set courses. That’s probably why I’m okay with sushi and oden—you have choice. You can order sushi by the piece and put whatever you want in oden. I suppose I like kushikatsu too. But for whatever reason I’m not a big nabemono person… there’s just too much stuff crammed in that pot. [laughs] (Note: Japanese hot pot cooking with huge variety, comparable to oden.)

Mollie: Well, I have to ask: Have you ever eaten snake?

Kojima: I have. I’ve had snake, frog, lizard, scorpion… When MGS3 came out we had an event in London, and they held a party with extremely unusual foods like giant ants. I had a lot of strange stuff there. Crocodile too.

Mollie: So, one of the questions we always ask is “What kind of car do you drive?” But being that your Japanese, it’s an interesting question, because maybe you don’t have a car. If you have a car, what kind of car do you drive, and if you don’t, what kind of car would you like to have?

Kojima: No, I drive. Can I say what make it is? [laughs] I’ll just say it’s a German car. My eyes aren’t so great so I don’t do a whole lot of driving, but I try to take it out once a week to keep the battery alive.

Mollie: Finally, being a huge fan of movies, you had to have given some thought to who you’d want to play the various characters in a Metal Gear movie. Any of those thoughts or choices you can share?

Kojima: Honestly, there aren’t too many actors right now… But Hugh Jackman, Wolverine from the various X-Men movies… He’s fantastic, he is Wolverine…

Mollie: It could be anybody from any time—not just recent actors.

Kojima: Hmm. Even then, nobody in particular. As far as the director, I’ve begged them to offer it to Ben Affleck. [laughs] He wouldn’t play Snake, though. And please, don’t read too much into that choice. [laughs] Michael Fassbender would be great, too, but he’s already in the Assassin’s Creed movie. I am really fond of Hugh Jackman. He has the perfect look for Snake. By the way, Snake’s Metal Gear Solid look was partly based on Christopher Walken in The Deer Hunter. Unfortunately, he’s a tad too advanced in years to play Snake now. [laughs] My favorite actor of all time is Steve McQueen, but he’s not very Snake. He doesn’t seem like the order-obeying type, and he wouldn’t operate in the shadows. [laughs]